PS is the best CD to play on the radios. Songs like TLAL, PS, Spiralling are great...

 

But the mechandise of this cd was almost zero. In the H&F era, they made much more appearances on worldwide tv shows, famous europeans radios, many french programs... same as on UTIS era.

 

I just think that the production of PS was great, but they made a unfair job of merchandise... just look at the dates of single's releases. All bad... =/

This album had so much potential to sell more than a million of copies, but until now, just 720.000 were sold. 

Are the numbers comparisons really accurate? I mean, had H&F sold 6 million in its first year? I think it's hard to judge on numbers alone.

Personally, I wouldn't still be a fan of the band if I hadn't taken the time to learn about the band members themselves when I first heard them in 2007. Their sound on PS is so different from what I fell in love with. I have a particular aversion to 80s music, too, which meant the only reason I bought this album was sheer loyalty.

I think the fans doesn't buy the albums from markets because in the internet everything you want it for free you got it & now everybody download free music from the internet & thats not good .... I think thats why . who is with me?

& I'll tell you one thing if the whole world doesn't listen for keane or love them well ...sorry for that word ..I don't give a damn about them cause i like keane very very much & I'll not leave them at all....who is with mw now?

 

Its not downloading.

The way music goes is thus,

1) band has massive hit with FIRST album they have spent a number of years getting to market, the songs are revised and revised untill they are stripped back to the basic level, and ONLY the BEST selection of tracks make the album - how many songs did Keane have in the bank BEFORE H&F? I bet they had 30 or more.. (heck look at the b-sides..)

2) band releases second album, which sells VERY well but not nearly as well as the first, this is partly because people who bought the last album buy the next one hoping it is the same as the first, or similar, it doesnt sell as many as the first because a large part of the casual audience that bought the first either dont hear a song they like, or word of mouth is that its rubbish. - A friend of mine LOVES H&F but was very Disapointed by UTIS.

3) band releases third album this sells a lot less than the first and those people who bought the second album on spec dont buy the third album unless they hear songs they like.

My fear is that Keane will get dropped from their record label if their next album sells even less, so they are going to need to find a way to be popular, and sell records whilst still experimenting!

 In addition to this i think you would need to consider the fact that Spiralling was given away free, the most popular track (aside i think from Again and Again - in terms of accessiblity) and the fact that people can choose which tracks to buy. If you buy a couple of songs you like from Itunes then there is less album sales!

i wonder how digital sales are done.. because maybe it has sold less but maybe some songs have sold well on their own. - I also think there have been no videos for the songs - The video for Spiralling was well after the song, The Lovers Are Losing had a rubbish video, PS, well i dont rate that either, and Better Than this didnt have a video that i saw!

Then take a look at H&F.. all very straightforward accessible videos. Bedshaped is a classic. - Again and Again could have had a BRILLIANT video, just stick the video from the screens from the tour on Itunes and watch it sell! That was a good video.

silentbob:

i wonder how digital sales are done.. because maybe it has sold less but maybe some songs have sold well on their own. - I also think there have been no videos for the songs - The video for Spiralling was well after the song, The Lovers Are Losing had a rubbish video, PS, well i dont rate that either, and Better Than this didnt have a video that i saw!

Then take a look at H&F.. all very straightforward accessible videos. Bedshaped is a classic. - Again and Again could have had a BRILLIANT video, just stick the video from the screens from the tour on Itunes and watch it sell! That was a good video.

I totally agree with you there. I would bet that Again & Again could have been pretty popular if the tour images were used as the video...I really enjoyed watching the screens during that song.

Yeah, the PS videos weren't the most amazing ones I've ever seen, and I rarely saw them on TV music channels at all...and I didn't really get the PS video itself. I thought it didn't really fit with the song..but that's just my view.

My opinion is the following: Hopes And Fears was a massive, massive, massive success. It was the greatest debut album that Keane could have ever had...

I agree with silentbob, when he says that many fans bought Under The Iron Sea expecting it to be as easy to consume as Hopes And Fears, but it is not. I think that many people got disappointed with the second record. In my opinion, it is just brilliant, but I myself did not love it when I first heard it. I had to get in the mood of the album in order to enjoy. Actually, The Frog Prince is the only song in Under The Iron Sea which reflects the sound of Hopes And Fears. People did not recognize the album as being a sound from Keane.

I was very surprised with the success of the album in Portugal, because I never thought that Crystal Ball or Nothing In My Way could end up being played on the radio repeatedly, but they did!

However, I have the opinion that Under The Iron Sea disappointed some people, whose interest for Keane vanished meanwhile. Consequently, few people wanted the third...

 Wow, I guess this is my most successful thread ever, passing the '4 replies' barrier xD

i'm realizing that because i'm a new fan, i had to consume their body of work all at once and quite obsessively so. i think this allowed me to see the albums together as a whole and how they related to one another rather than a particularized analysis of one album versus or over the other.  i guess i take this question to be whether success is based on the number of various fans in a global market (i'm in the us where many people still don't know or may have lapsed on keane), the creative will and want of the artists themselves, reaction to critique or other industry trends, or even our, at least my own, frustration with how much keane is underrated.  in a way, i was quite angry that i didn't know about them until this year.   

I'd have to say that there still are Keane fans out there, but they don't rely like the new stuff. I know a while back I introduced Keane to a few older folks, and they really liked PS enough to actually listen to it constantly but not buy the album, they actually preferred UTIS and H&F a lot more, but appreciated the experimentation that Keane has going in PS.

Plus I agree with muse-ic about how Keane was promoted around the world. I can tell you for sure, here in the US there was nothing, no posters, no radio or extensive TV announcements (I don't count Ellen and Jimmy Kimmel promoters that much because the people who watch those shows aren't interested in to music, seriously that the demographic for those audiences), nothing, nada, zilch...

I so want to kick whoever is in charge for promoting Keane in the US, because I'm currently studying Marketing and I've just got to say that Keane's marketing department needs someone who want the band to move ahead and to make their fan base grow and blossom and such. Otherwise, it's true that the record label will write them off if they don't sell enough.

I've asked most of my musician friends and they can't believe that Keane can't get enough people to purchase their record, especially with all of the great tools out there that are for promoting music. They however agreed that releasing a free single to promote the album is a brilliant idea, because that one way to draw in a new crowd.

Otherwise, I can discuss this all day and just type up an entire ten page paper on this, which I will do and which I will post in my blog but that is for later lol…However this is just a brief overview of my idea on the Keane fan base, and on a personal note Gwen Stefani should be grateful that Tim wrote such a great song (Early Winter), and lets her perform it, but that’s a different story all in itself. Thanks for your time :D

daniel_san_18:

 Wow, I guess this is my most successful thread ever, passing the '4 replies' barrier xD

Daniel, how could you forget your Say Something hread, with 1020 replies in under 5 days? 

Here's another reply under your belt!! I have felt distinctly in the minority in more recent times-it's true that Coldplay-and Oasis-seem to be the choice of most people I've met. I am the only hardcore Keane fan in my circle of friends, though several say 'I liked their first album' if asked. I am genuinely puzzled by it. Is it down to marketing? Is their music so diverse that the fan base changes at each album?? ' I play 'Spiralling' 'Lovers are Losing' and friends don't recognise them, Weird. Am I living in Keane-warp??

musicistherapy:

Here's another reply under your belt!! I have felt distinctly in the minority in more recent times-it's true that Coldplay-and Oasis-seem to be the choice of most people I've met. I am the only hardcore Keane fan in my circle of friends, though several say 'I liked their first album' if asked. I am genuinely puzzled by it. Is it down to marketing? Is their music so diverse that the fan base changes at each album?? ' I play 'Spiralling' 'Lovers are Losing' and friends don't recognise them, Weird. Am I living in Keane-warp??

 

Not sure I'm answering to your post, but I have the feeling that one of the main reasons why H&F sold well is because they were a piano band and promoted heavily with the trademark. Keane attracted many fans because H&F had "class", and was"polished" and "posh" because of piano. So people who are not usually into Pop music (sounds cheap) and rock (cheap and it's not polished or matured) hailed H&F. That's why I'm tired of hearing that they like Piano Keane but not welcoming their experimental sounds, and guitars.

muse-ic:

musicistherapy:

Here's another reply under your belt!! I have felt distinctly in the minority in more recent times-it's true that Coldplay-and Oasis-seem to be the choice of most people I've met. I am the only hardcore Keane fan in my circle of friends, though several say 'I liked their first album' if asked. I am genuinely puzzled by it. Is it down to marketing? Is their music so diverse that the fan base changes at each album?? ' I play 'Spiralling' 'Lovers are Losing' and friends don't recognise them, Weird. Am I living in Keane-warp??

 

Not sure I'm answering to your post, but I have the feeling that one of the main reasons why H&F sold well is because they were a piano band and promoted heavily with the trademark. Keane attracted many fans because H&F had "class", and was"polished" and "posh" because of piano. So people who are not usually into Pop music (sounds cheap) and rock (cheap and it's not polished or matured) hailed H&F. That's why I'm tired of hearing that they like Piano Keane but not welcoming their experimental sounds, and guitars.

@muse-ic  --  I have to agree with you on those points, because that is also so true.

hey muse-ic, what i noticed at the same time is that music critics and journalists out there who attempt to influence taste, style, and music sales seemed to have written keane off as wimpy coldplay wanna-bes with the first two albums.  did you notice how these same cats are hip to keane now ever since ps (i think at least)?  i am thinking because they where shocked that the gents broke out of the so-called piano band coldplay wanna be shtick (!), and dramatic oozing ballads and touchy feely songs (which i LOVE by the way).

vera, you and others here have some excellent marketing insights. i'd love to hear more about what you think keane is up to with the mini-ep. do you think it's a strategic move artistically and from a marketing standpoint? how can they be successful with both of these things in mind.  and muse-ic, it does seem as if a good number of us keane-sters are very hesitant for keane to make these moves and expand this way (guitars, bright colors, hip hop collabos, synths, drum machine, hard vocals). vera, i know it sounds harsh and cold, but i personally think their marketing crew might be realizing that they need a new, fresh young market for keane if they want to do this stuff and remain popular.  if so, i believe that they really need to market to this younger audience to make it work (feeling out other non-keane websites and audiences, digital stuff, multimedia, interactive stuff which i think and hope they are doing).  the important thing is for keane and crew is to do this but do it in a way that will not make old school fans feel abandoned or alienated. i have a feeling maybe that's why they are doing the re-release of 'hopes and fears' to assuage these "fears" (lol jokey joke) and i think tim mentioned that the mini-ep will have a fleetwood mac-esque type of song too.

again, although i liked coldplay, radiohead and oasis back in the day, keane got me at the dance remixes and mash-ups this year and their openness to try new things out. from there i went on to buy all of their albums and now i love the classic keane vibe. that's just my own subjective experience and i met a couple of others (non-boardies) who got into keane this way too.  because of this, i feel certain there are potential new fans out there waiting to be had this way. maybe it's not a lot in terms of sales but it's some, right? for all we know, keane could just want to do this stuff no matter the sales or the fear of being dropped esp since they were close to losing it all after utis and the drama in 2006. i just love the band so much that i want them to be successful, creative and happy in everything they do. imho, they really deserve it because they are one of the best and illest bands out there but so many people don't know.

i don't know.  i'm just a new fan so i may not be at the liberty to be talking such smack. not to mention, i'm in the us so when some think if you haven't remained consistantly successful in the us market you are not successful at all. but that's another whole story in terms of americanization through globalization! raaaah!

lord_byron:

hey muse-ic, what i noticed at the same time is that music critics and journalists out there who attempt to influence taste, style, and music sales seemed to have written keane off as wimpy coldplay wanna-bes with the first two albums.  did you notice how these same cats are hip to keane now ever since ps (i think at least)?  i am thinking because they where shocked that the gents broke out of the so-called piano band coldplay wanna be shtick (!), and dramatic oozing ballads and touchy feely songs (which i LOVE by the way).

Sure some of the songs on PS did get good feedbacks from media, but that's it. Keane can try new things but are still uncool and tasteless. You know, it's Keane! (lol) They are still the band who released H&F and whined about their tragic drama which were really not that tragic. I'm probably biased, but I think those who follow music trend go for illegal downloading. That is why free Spiralling received many downloads (was it over 500K in a week?) but the album itself has not sold well as expected.

lord_byron:

i'd love to hear more about what you think keane is up to with the mini-ep. do you think it's a strategic move artistically and from a marketing standpoint? how can they be successful with both of these things in mind

My guess is that Keane release the mini EP which is influenced with hip hop to capture new fans and expand their creativity. Then they release the 4th album which is more acoustic and similar to H&F sound to assure old fans (lol) that they are still Keane whom they loved, and hopefully they can still keep the new fans. They've probably realized that a new album with experimental sounds / different genres are a little risky, but EP might work. Or, is it just Keane are aiming the US market with the EP? It's hip hop and has K'naan and probably Kanye West. Also it will be a good strategic move to introduce and promote their 4th album there.

I'm not against Keane trying new things as long as the results are good. On the other hand, I believe there is no need to challenge new sounds or genres recklessly to be creative.

Good answer!! I have to admit, I was attracted to Keane because the sound was more piano-oriented than other bands. It wasn't a conscious decision, though. I just liked the intimacy of their music. I've had to take a deep breath with 'Perfect Symmetry' and swallow hard, before I could really warm to it. I was slow catching on to their newer material, I'll be honest. but their live gigging has a real heart to it, and there is very little of their material i can't find something in now. As a keyboard player and piano teacher, the idea of keyboard/piano music being 'posher' I find interesting. When I'm teaching, my pupils find the keyboard a great way of making music. Once a few chords have been learned, or a bass line/rhythm set up, the music is just as pop/rock. Piano and keyboards are great for improvising. They don't need to be able to read music. Something like'EC' is the sort of song they can pick up easily. I guess my feeling is that 'you win some, you lose some'. Every time any band make a new album they will win or lose some fans. I don't know whether Keane have lost fans any more than any other band. But there's enough love out there for them and more, around the world. I'm dying to hear some new stuff from them.......

muse-ic:

musicistherapy:

Here's another reply under your belt!! I have felt distinctly in the minority in more recent times-it's true that Coldplay-and Oasis-seem to be the choice of most people I've met. I am the only hardcore Keane fan in my circle of friends, though several say 'I liked their first album' if asked. I am genuinely puzzled by it. Is it down to marketing? Is their music so diverse that the fan base changes at each album?? ' I play 'Spiralling' 'Lovers are Losing' and friends don't recognise them, Weird. Am I living in Keane-warp??

 

Not sure I'm answering to your post, but I have the feeling that one of the main reasons why H&F sold well is because they were a piano band and promoted heavily with the trademark. Keane attracted many fans because H&F had "class", and was"polished" and "posh" because of piano. So people who are not usually into Pop music (sounds cheap) and rock (cheap and it's not polished or matured) hailed H&F. That's why I'm tired of hearing that they like Piano Keane but not welcoming their experimental sounds, and guitars.

In answer to the thread,I don't know to be perfectly honest.I tend to think not,that their popularity continues to grow.They have certainly grown since I first knew of them back in 2006.I can compare their albums and songs,but I really could not pick an absolute favourite,I have favourite songs on all of their albums.

The very first time I heard their sound,I fell in love with it,including their music and the whole keane package,and that has never waned nor changed for me.Songs that I haven't instantly been drawn to have grown on me and many have become my  absolute,firm favourites.So keane experimenting with different sounds and music must work and must surely be a good thing.I must admit I do get suprised when I ask fellow colleagues and some members of my family if they have heard of keane and they look puzzled.I can't quite believe they have never heard of them,but it then becomes an oppourtunity for me to introduce their music to them.I did this with my sister who admitted their music was good and ended up coming to a gig with me,then purchased album two

musicistherapy:

As a keyboard player and piano teacher, the idea of keyboard/piano music being 'posher' I find interesting.

Although CP-70 is an electric piano, people find it more classy than any keyboards. At least this is how Keane were promoted - not a keyboard band, but a piano band. If Keane were making piano sounds only by keyboards, I don't think H&F would be massive as it did. I've seen many fans go "no, Keane shouldn't use guitars, because they are a piano band!" I really don't know but listening to a different music (such as no guitars, but piano) that makes them feel different and better? "I'm not into those guitar rock bands. Keane = a piano band suits my mood."

musicistherapy:

I guess my feeling is that 'you win some, you lose some'. Every time any band make a new album they will win or lose some fans.

I completely agree; I think any band runs the risk of potentially losing fans when they release new material.  And I don't think a band losing fans is always to do with the material itself - some people grow out of certain bands or start listening to different styles of music.

muse-ic:

I'm not against Keane trying new things as long as the results are good. On the other hand, I believe there is no need to challenge new sounds or genres recklessly to be creative.

I do and I don't agree with that; I think it's good to be a little reckless when it comes to being creative.  To me that's all part of the creative process and of challenging yourself.  And yes, we all want the results to be good, but I think that can be kind of ambiguous - who's to say what's good or not?  For example I've never been a fan of 20th century contemporary music like atonal, Schoenberg or John Cage stuff...things like that.  I appreciate it as a genre and for its experimental value but I don't really listen to it, whereas some people love that kind of music.  I just think everyone has different ideas of what constitutes "good" music.

Anyways, I think even if a band releases a clunker of an album most fans will still stick by them.  Like with Oasis, I really didn't like Heathen Chemistry, but I still love Oasis.  I think people need to look at a band's entire body of work and not just one album.

cowpie21:

muse-ic:

I'm not against Keane trying new things as long as the results are good. On the other hand, I believe there is no need to challenge new sounds or genres recklessly to be creative.

I do and I don't agree with that; I think it's good to be a little reckless when it comes to being creative.  To me that's all part of the process of challenging yourself.  And yes, we all want the results to be good, but I think that can be kind of ambiguous - who's to say what's good or not?  For example I've never been a fan of 20th century contemporary music like atonal, Schoenberg or John Cage stuff...things like that.  I appreciate it as a genre and for its experimental value but I don't really listen to it, whereas some people love that kind of music.  I just think everyone has different ideas of what constitutes "good" music.

I was saying that I'm afraid to see the band lose their way when they go too far trying new things. The main point is being creative, not going into new genres. Speaking of Oasis, their music style hasn't changed dramatically, but they are polishing their music, keeping their comfort zone. I don't think it's bad.

cowpie21:

Anyways, I think even if a band releases a clunker of an album most fans will still stick by them.  Like with Oasis, I really didn't like Heathen Chemistry, but I still love Oasis.  I think people need to look at a band's entire body of work and not just one album.

I agree.