^^ hi again cowpie21 and muse-ic, forgive my late night ramble but you all had me thinking... i'm not trying to gloss over evidence 
that keane 'lost' fans or sold less w/ps and could possibly lose more old 
school fans if they continue to 'experiment' w/the mini-ep but i totally 
concur w/you both in regards to seeing keane's full body of work 
holistically. i was saying earlier that i didn't realize it at first but 
that's what i was forced to do as a new fan. cowpie21, i agree that many fans have 
different relationships to keane's music and in seeing the ways they change 
of which are all valid. personally, i don't want to blindly devour 
everything keane spoons up given my fawning new fanhood but maybe i am 
just one of those bad (thx johanna lol) ornery new keane-fans that doesn't 
know any better but to love them b/c they take these reckless, bold risks which could just as well maniacally taunt other fans who have been in the 
keane-dom for awhile ahah. and yeah muse-ic, keane may still be tasteless and uncool to 
some critics/audiences but they can also be sentimental, kitsch and 
salaciously camp for others (oh goodness...*when doves cry*).



as for the mini-ep (which is hip hop/remix/fleetwood mac type stuff i think), my heart is still w/ 'electronica' but i'm feeling 'hip-hop' 
just as much as 'britpop' as genres and want to see what these cats can pull off together. i am sure some fans, maybe even myself, may see these collabos as super 
wack and off the meter no matter what while others may see an 'at risk' keane 
gone astray as the gents roll up on the hip-hop bandwagon to get some north 
american $$$ and 'street' credibility (ahah muse-ic, just kidding! please, don't 
get after me! *trembles* lol?).  i don't know, maybe its just my 
subjective music ear, but a lot of 'classic' keane (untitled 1, tyderyn, 
sunshine, bad dream, oadlt (my jam!), night sky) already has that percussive piano and 
drowsy beat heavy vibe for me that's present in electronica & hip hop so it's not 
that massive of a stretch for me to make esp given the use of the warm 
rhodes piano in some of the more jazzy, east coast hip hop and deep soulful house 
and tech tracks i love. besides, as i mentioned before, both genres don't 
rely on the guitar either like 'classic piano' keane. that's just my own ears 
and what i hear whereas it could be different for others.



speaking of genres muse-ic, the politico in me thinks that genres are created via music 
industries to discipline and police artistic creativity, to put artists 
on lockdown and to force a rigid, syphoning off of musics and artists into their respective 
corners for predetermined, designated audiences. not to be too celebratory, but maybe the popularity of the mash-up 
manifested itself through some fans/djs/remixers/audiences challenging assumed music industry 
wisdom and control over the hyper genre-fication of musics (?). i just know 
that if i crisscross music genres as a dj and a listener over time, i feel 
that it's only reasonable for an artist to do the same especially if i 
considered their entire body of work over time.  yeah, i might imagine it as scandalous genre-hopping but who am i to tell an artist what their creative will and want 
should be? maybe a marketing team and a continuous record deal will do the 
trick as vera mentioned (lol), but sometimes i have to step back from demanding what 'i' want 
an artist to do for 'me' (ie: keane's return to distorted piano utis vibe, 
dj remixes, live mash up/duet with beth ditto and gossip, white suits 
(yesss!), heavy metal ahaha). instead, i should at least try to ask 
what do 'they' want to do as artists that will, of course, allow them to 
please/taunt/challenge fans, but more so to fulfill whatever creative mission 
or growth they see themselves working towards in their life passion - music. pure and simply, music.  for whatever kind it might be - just music.  i don't know, maybe 
i'm just too idealistic and uppity as a wannabe creative type myself in this 
regard. sigh...but i digress.



i do know and respect that there's all these sides folks have pointed out 
here that we can see when looking at the various notions of what 'less fans' 
could mean for keane.  i just had to include my own triggered response to this 
as a new fan that would invariably incorporate stuff around the paradoxes of 
music industries, genres, artistic creativity, what i want as a fan, critics, 
etc.. sorry so long again but it's 
slow around here post-tour so i can ramble on as much as i want, yes? ahahah

nighty night, cowpie and muse-ic. i'm out.... lbtg

Vera:

I can tell you for sure, here in the US there was nothing, no posters, no radio or extensive TV announcements (I don't count Ellen and Jimmy Kimmel promoters that much because the people who watch those shows aren't interested in to music, seriously that the demographic for those audiences), nothing, nada, zilch...

I so want to kick whoever is in charge for promoting Keane in the US

I'm just reading this now, and I totally agree with your comments about the lack of promotion in the US.  To me, the evolution of the Keane sound is wonderful.  They just need to get more exposure (again) in the US.  It's probably a drag to do promotional type stuff for radio stations etc..., but that's what helps in getting more air play, fans, and sales.  I know they did a few radio session type things in the US for "Perfect Symmetry", but nothing I can recall in NYC (a major media market).  Yeah, they did the Jimmy Fallon show in NYC, but that was at the tail end of the tour.  Recently, I spoke to 2 local DJs separately after I was selected to attend an exclusive radio session taping for another band. After thanking them, of course I pitched them to play (more) Keane.  Both liked Keane and said nice things about Tom and Tim, whom they met at an after party a few years ago (I blurted "AND RICHARD" of course).  One of the DJs, Matt Pinfield, the guy from MTV years ago, said "I don't know why they didn't stop by the last time they were here."  So it's not like the American media is not receptive to Keane.  More emphasis on promotion and marketing is needed.    

Also, I remember trying to tell Tim about this in Portland.  There were like 10 boardies talking to him at the same time, and I said "it's all in the marketing" (I said this a little bit after he mentioned that they're not sure how much promotion they will be doing for the mini-album).  He turned and looked right at me when I said this so I know he heard.  He didn't say anything back, but from his look I think he knew where I was trying to come from.  I hope he and the rest of the band knows that there are so many more Keane fans out there. 

Vera:

I so want to kick whoever is in charge for promoting Keane in the US, because I'm currently studying Marketing and I've just got to say that Keane's marketing department needs someone who want the band to move ahead and to make their fan base grow and blossom and such. Otherwise, it's true that the record label will write them off if they don't sell enough.

Completely agree with this. Lack of promotion here in the US, mixed with only a very limited number of "Live" events, equals low US sales. The first album did well here, I think, mainly because of the radio airplay that "Somewhere only we know" got, plus many of the songs from "Hopes and Fears" getting used on popular tv shows like Grey's Anatomy, Smallville, The OC and others.

Hopes and Fears sold almost a million copies inthe US, which was pretty good for a band that didn't really have a big US live tour.  Under the Iron Sea sold only a third of that here, again I think, mainly because of lack of promotion. There is very little "Good" music coming out of the US right now, with all the Hip-Hop junk taking over our airwaves. Keane could really step up and fill that empty hole in our music scene if they put some real effort into marketing themself better over here. (Tour-dates!!!! Hint...Hint...)

I absolutely love the music of Keane, all of it. And I know that everyone I share the info about them with here falls in love with their music too. But most people I talk to about Keane, say they have never heard of them before. So, what we have is.... people quickly fall in love with their music...very few people in the US know who they are.....equals= poor marketing.

GarryG:

Vera:

I so want to kick whoever is in charge for promoting Keane in the US, because I'm currently studying Marketing and I've just got to say that Keane's marketing department needs someone who want the band to move ahead and to make their fan base grow and blossom and such. Otherwise, it's true that the record label will write them off if they don't sell enough.

 

Completely agree with this. Lack of promotion here in the US, mixed with only a very limited number of "Live" events, equals low US sales. The first album did well here, I think, mainly because of the radio airplay that "Somewhere only we know" got, plus many of the songs from "Hopes and Fears" getting used on popular tv shows like Grey's Anatomy, Smallville, The OC and others.

Hopes and Fears sold almost a million copies inthe US, which was pretty good for a band that didn't really have a big US live tour.  Under the Iron Sea sold only a third of that here, again I think, mainly because of lack of promotion. There is very little "Good" music coming out of the US right now, with all the Hip-Hop junk taking over our airwaves. Keane could really step up and fill that empty hole in our music scene if they put some real effort into marketing themself better over here. (Tour-dates!!!! Hint...Hint...)

I absolutely love the music of Keane, all of it. And I know that everyone I share the info about them with here falls in love with their music too. But most people I talk to about Keane, say they have never heard of them before. So, what we have is.... people quickly fall in love with their music...very few people in the US know who they are.....equals= poor marketing.

The whole marketing thing I find puzzling when it comes to Keane. They didn't, I think, get as much exposure marketing-wise in England as I would have expected, for PS. Had it not been for 'Q' magazine and the corresponding satellite TV channel, I can't imagine people would have been that aware of PS when it came out. But I live in a fairly small City so maybe it was different elsewhere. I feel the same frustration as you others from the US. An interesting thought. None of the band are headline chasers when it comes to the media-they lead very private lives. This is a rare quality and admirable. They really are about their music. But does this mean that they don't hold the same fascination for the media and therefore get overlooked sometimes?? I only discovered Keane bizarrely, because I liked the cover of UIS, not because I really knew who they were. I didn't know they'd done SOWK and EC. I was obviously living under a stone then..... I am not, by the way, suggesting that Keane should now go out and create scandal!!! And I don't think there are less fans than before. Their profile just isn't high enough???!!! Or as high as I'd like!!! P> 

 

 

 

musicistherapy:

The whole marketing thing I find puzzling when it comes to Keane. They didn't, I think, get as much exposure marketing-wise in England as I would have expected, for PS. Had it not been for 'Q' magazine and the corresponding satellite TV channel, I can't imagine people would have been that aware of PS when it came out. But I live in a fairly small City so maybe it was different elsewhere. I feel the same frustration as you others from the US. An interesting thought. None of the band are headline chasers when it comes to the media-they lead very private lives. This is a rare quality and admirable. They really are about their music. But does this mean that they don't hold the same fascination for the media and therefore get overlooked sometimes?? I only discovered Keane bizarrely, because I liked the cover of UIS, not because I really knew who they were. I didn't know they'd done SOWK and EC. I was obviously living under a stone then..... I am not, by the way, suggesting that Keane should now go out and create scandal!!! And I don't think there are less fans than before. Their profile just isn't high enough???!!! Or as high as I'd like!!! P> 

> 

I'm new to being a manic Keane fan (saw them in May in Oakland, CA because I knew and liked ONE song--"Somewhere Only We Know," and was blown away by how talented they are). I'm also new to posting here. : )

 Anywho, I just have to chime in that as a fan who came to the table after all three albums they've done so far were released, I have been able to appreciate each and every album for the individual strengths without comparing them to each other. I love what they did for Perfect Symmetry, and believe that they owe it to themselves to move in whatever musical direction is best for them, even if it means some fans don't love it.

 Because of this, I am super-excited about their collaboration with K'Naan (did I spell that right?), even though it is bound to be very, very different than what we're used to from Keane. Music is about expanding and challenging yourself. If they just released every album to sound like Hopes and Fears, where's the fun? I can't imagine that three creative guys like Tim, Tom and Richard would be happy to stay mired in one place.

 For what it's worth. : )

P.S. The day after I saw these guys live, I was so anxious to own as many of their songs as I could that I got on iTunes and had a ball. The only CD I've actually bought is Hopes and Fears Deluxe.

Welcome to the Board, Musicalmeg.

I agree that Keane should be free to make the kind of music they think fit, but I am so hoping they stay away from rap music. It's only my opinion, but I think it all sounds the same, and there's not too much talent involved.  Tim, Tom, & Richard have a unique sound. When I heard Hopes and Fears, I thought it quite unlike any other sound I had ever heard. It was a hard act to follow, and I play it more than any of their other albums, good though they are.

I will probably always be a fan, not just for the music, but for the kind of lovely guys they are, but I can't guarantee I will buy any music that includes rap. It may be an "age" thing, as rap music does seem to attract a young audience, and they will doubtless pick up more fans who appreciate that kind of music

Diana

xx

xx

DiamondDi:

Welcome to the Board, Musicalmeg.

I agree that Keane should be free to make the kind of music they think fit, but I am so hoping they stay away from rap music. It's only my opinion, but I think it all sounds the same, and there's not too much talent involved.  Tim, Tom, & Richard have a unique sound. When I heard Hopes and Fears, I thought it quite unlike any other sound I had ever heard. It was a hard act to follow, and I play it more than any of their other albums, good though they are.

I will probably always be a fan, not just for the music, but for the kind of lovely guys they are, but I can't guarantee I will buy any music that includes rap. It may be an "age" thing, as rap music does seem to attract a young audience, and they will doubtless pick up more fans who appreciate that kind of music

I agree that I wouldn't want to see Keane do stereotypical rap (I think I said this once on the old board, but if I hear Tom rapping about how they're "straight outta Battle" then I'll have issues ...), but it seems like some hip-hop/rap artists have melody in their songs.  Like I'm not huge into rap but I really like Heartless by Kanye West because it's got a melody to it.  Also I think in an interview either Tim or Tom said that K'Naan's stuff is more melodic and more akin to what they do.  Plus, I think Keane are just more into the beat/style of rap rather than the actual rapping itself (like how Eminem's Lose Yourself was an influence on NIMW).  So anyways I guess I'm not too worried about it; I'm really looking forward to hear the collaboration.  And yeah, maybe continuing to branch out their style by dipping into the hip-hop pool will help broaden their fanbase.

I WAS LATE TO THE KEANE UNIVERSE [SUMMER 2008] SO DON'T FEEL THE LOYALTY TO THE FIRST 2 ALBUMS . I LOVE ALL 3. WHAT DREW ME TO THE BAND WAS THE LIVE DVD; THE PURE EMOTIVE SOUND OF TOMS POWERFUL VOICE. I  HAD NOT BEEN TO A LIVE GIG FOR 15 YEARS - I THOUGHT I HAD GROWN OUT OF IT AT THE GRAND OLD AGE OF 47!!  TO MY EARS TOMS VOICE IS BEST ON P.S, THAT SAME POWER WAS THERE WHEN I SAW THEM LIVE. THAT IS WHY I LOVE THIS BAND.   

Cowpie21: "straight outta Battle"

Bwahahahaha!

Dionysia:

Cowpie21: "straight outta Battle"

Bwahahahaha!

LMAO I can only imagine, but seriously they have to get something out there that will please all of the current fans and that might help them gain some new one.

Plus since they did a re-release of Hopes & Fears it gives them more chances of actually getting new fans to like their older music too.

Besides all that good stuff, their Marketing Department better wake up. BWAHAHAHHAHAHHA (sorry I'm a Marketing Major and I can just see whats going on currently isn't good news)

Interesting thread this one... I haven't been very active on this forum so far, more of a lurker but would like to put in my 2 cents, for what it's worth...  

cowpie21:

musicistherapy:

I guess my feeling is that 'you win some, you lose some'. Every time any band make a new album they will win or lose some fans.

I completely agree; I think any band runs the risk of potentially losing fans when they release new material.  And I don't think a band losing fans is always to do with the material itself - some people grow out of certain bands or start listening to different styles of music.

Couldn't agree more with both statements! You will, with every band, have a core of faithful followers who buy new material of their favourite band no matter what. The rest of the fanbase varies from album to album... I guess according to what appeals more to the masses! Or to the media for that matter because let's face it... we are all in some way controlled by the media and if they decide they don't like an album, they don't give it airplay and most listeners won't be familiar with the songs that have been ditched by DJ's, music journalists and so on...and therefor won't be buying the album. Also times evolve, so do tastes... what band can honestly say that all of their albums have been equally succesfull during their career? I'm sure The Rolling Stones have had sales going up and down, and changing fannumbers too!  

muse-ic:

I'm not against Keane trying new things as long as the results are good. On the other hand, I believe there is no need to challenge new sounds or genres recklessly to be creative.

Isn't trying new things out part of being creative! So far with Keane, I got attracted to them by the piano-sound too as I absolutely love the piano and it would be the instrument of choice had I ever learnt to play any instrument. Loved the album so much that I got UTIS immediately too... That one had to grow on me somewhat, I have to admit and is probably still my least favourite of the 3 albums (although CB and IIAW totally rock live!). I was still in the shop on Oct 13th last year to get my hands on PS though! And despite the less piano-oriented sound, I love it!! So as far as I'm concerned, their creative risks have really paid off and I'll be there again eagerly awaiting new stuff!

I agree that it's an issue of not many people having heard their post-HF music or previous fans having bought HF b/c it was the new cool thing. I also doubt Keane have that much extra money b/n label fees, new equipment and travel/production costs, so maybe better management means money they can't afford to spend? Maybe Keane management distributes samples to the radiostations, but the non-UK radio stations don't see much demand for their music and so don't choose to play them?  Radiostations in the US are proportioned something like this: 5 or 6 country, 2 or 3 hip-hop, 1 national public radio, 1 Latin, and 1 adult rock, which is an all-encompassing 70s, 80s, 90s, today but really seems to play an endlessly rotating set of 10 songs from Duran Duran, Prince, and whoever wrote the stupid Loveshack song. Big names like Madonna hardly make it on that list, so not much is left for smaller artists. Maybe that should be the mission of us non-UK fans - call in a local radio station and request, no demand, a Keane song?

But totally agree with previous posts - Keane was my absolute favorite band before PS, and I didn't think it was possible to love them any more than I did, but I do! PS was so unexpected and different and fun and quirky and happy and deep...makes me smile just thinking about it :)