muse-ic:

In my opinion "groupie" was embraced during '70s. It was a part of music culture. Morals in music scene have changed, and now media and music companies feed on us with stupid gossips, rather limiting our imaginations. You will find many obsessed stupid fans who are manipulated with their tactics - to follow celebrities / trends, rather than music itself.

 

What am I saying? 

 

that's interesting about the 70's because it makes me think about the rise in concerts and stuff like that in the big arenas. there were these masses of people rolling to concerts all over the country so that totally makes sense with the creation of that term. then again, i am thinking this groupie thing may have been a way to make being a fan more glamorous (?). to me, it seems like it's morphed into or been replicated with msg boards and the creation of the term 'boardie.'  sort of like groupie is a real time interaction with music while a boardie is a virtual thing via the internets. hmm...

cowpie21:

I think that's an interesting question.  Before I got involved on this forum, I used to think of those terms seperately and rather stereotypically, ie: groupies as girls that followed bands around and liked to try and do...um..."favors" for band members; boardies as internet forum members, fan girls as tweens who plaster band/band member posters all over their wall and squeal at the sight of said band member.
But, I think nowadays the lines have blurred and the terms can be interchangable. I think a groupie can be anyone who devoutly follows a band around (like Phish or Grateful Dead fans...and several of the kmb faithful ) and isn't necessarily after sex; groupies can be boardies (and vice versa), and I think all of us on this forum, regardless of age, have had our fan girl/boy moments! Of course, that being said, I think a lot of it depends on the person though, because I think in some cases the terms can still be seperate (if that makes sense); like some people would probably only consider themselves boardies, etc.

oh wow. being in california, i know a lot of dead heads who are TOTAL groupies but in the non-sexual sense. yeah, i don't think groupies all have to be sexual or stalkers either. but if the 'groupie' is still 'alive' , i think that a boardie/fangirl and/or groupie is a way for some of us to become a part of the music, be it sexually (for those that do), buying stuff, msg board addiction, going to crazy mad concerts, plastering your wall and ceilings with your fave band, or through other means.  sort of like i can have a sense of belonging to the band (like rock band the game) or ownership and control (could be a false sense) over the music and artist i love so much through these means. Not saying that the terms allow us to do all this stuff but it seems like they are go-to words of some sorts to make us feel a part of the scene (?).

it's funny because jsut from reading folks experiences with keane on the forum and coming to know them and their music, the band seems to induce this grown up yet late blooming fangirl/boy of some sorts. i mean, people in their late twenties, thirties, forties and beyond who are so extra on keane. that's awesome but why is that? and why with keane?  maybe i am trying to justify going to montreal all the way from the west coast just to see them perform again.  maybe i am trying to claim some kind of identity that enables me to say that it's alright.  right?(!)   lol.

does that make sense?  i don't know, it's late and am just thinking out loud to myself.... 

hugs to all, lb

lord_byron:

oh wow. being in california, i know a lot of dead heads who are TOTAL groupies but in the non-sexual sense. yeah, i don't think groupies all have to be sexual or stalkers either. but if the 'groupie' is still 'alive' , i think that a boardie/fangirl and/or groupie is a way for some of us to become a part of the music, be it sexually (for those that do), buying stuff, msg board addiction, going to crazy mad concerts, plastering your wall and ceilings with your fave band, or through other means.  sort of like i can have a sense of belonging to the band (like rock band the game) or ownership and control (could be a false sense) over the music and artist i love so much through these means. Not saying that the terms allow us to do all this stuff but it seems like they are go-to words of some sorts to make us feel a part of the scene (?).

it's funny because jsut from reading folks experiences with keane on the forum and coming to know them and their music, the band seems to induce this grown up yet late blooming fangirl/boy of some sorts. i mean, people in their late twenties, thirties, forties and beyond who are so extra on keane. that's awesome but why is that? and why with keane?  maybe i am trying to justify going to montreal all the way from the west coast just to see them perform again.  maybe i am trying to claim some kind of identity that enables me to say that it's alright.  right?(!)   lol.

does that make sense?  i don't know, it's late and am just thinking out loud to myself.... 

hugs to all, lb

I've wondered that myself...why do people react the way they do to Keane, or any other band for that matter? Or like with the Beatles, why did they ellicit mass hysteria? I was a total fan girl with the Beatles when I was younger....I had the posters on my wall, all the albums, books, wanted to know all about them, had a small crush on Paul McCartney , etc.  The music is a huge factor for me, and now that I'm older I appreciate their songwriting and their musicianship a lot more, but why did I get into the Beatles specifically and so hard-core? Was it that my mom was a fan? Who knows. I often wonder if the media plays a part; though with the Beatles I got into them a good 15-20 years after they broke up so they weren't really in the public eye anymore, but back in their hey-day there was a lot of media hype around them.  And now with the internet, information and pictures etc are so accessible that I think maybe it fosters that kind of adoration.  Something that I think would make a good psych experiment is how exposure of an artist/band plays a role in someone's being fan of them.  With Keane for example, there are pockets of fans that like Tim the best or Richard or Jesse.  But, it seems like there's a larger pocket of Tom fans, and I wonder if it's due to exposure.  As the lead singer, Tom seems to get the brunt of the fame and I think by default is kind of "the face of the band" (even though obviously the band is made up of more than just Tom); when I see press pictures from live gigs, most of the pictures seem to be of him, or seeing video footage of gigs like the Live DVD; the camera mainly focuses on Tom because he's the one singing the songs and running around the stage being the frontman. So I just wonder if the fact that Tom seems to be more in the public eye in that sense leads to the way people feel about him. 

I guess though a lot of why people respond they way they do to bands goes back to personal taste, as in people respond to different types of music. But I have to agree that going full tilt for a band, through finding out all you can, merch, forums, etc, is maybe a way of trying to be a part of the music (or maybe even the band on some level). As far as following a band around, I think that's true too, but I also think it also has to do with the "high" of going to a live show; all the excitement of being there with your favorite band playing live right in front of you.  And I think for Keane, their music is so personal and honest that I think it makes people gravitate to them that much more.

I've never questioned my reasoning for liking Keane, prior to this thread.  I guess like others, I think of 'groupies' being a derogatory term, covering girls who attempt sexual encounters with a band (for whatever the reason they have low self-esteem issues)!  I have personally used the term ' boardies', but merely as a grouping term, for people I 'speak' to through the internet. 

Fan boy / girl makes me think of those odd boys and girls who completely cloned Boy George, around the time of Karma Chameleon!  Living in a Suffolk village, without any contacts in the fashionable world nearer to London, these kids were totally symptomatic of the time!  Perhaps I only think of this label as one that covers pre-teens?

As previously mentioned, I think that it is a combination of amazingly personal and sound lyrics, that draws people across the age-ranges and cultural differences to the band.  The fact that we are aware of the background of many of the lyrics (unless Tim can make up a new 'press release' idea for each track), feeds into the sense of ownership.  If something 'belongs' to you, you are much more likely to hold onto it and not let it drift away.  Tom is also completely believable in his delivery.

I wonder if we should create another term ... I mean, what happens if you don't write loads at the board (I used to go to the older board several times a day, but I can spend weeks without posting here), then you're not a boardie? And then, what happens if you go to loads of gigs, but you're not attempting anything near the "groupies stuff"??

I don't think I can be literally set into any of those groups, or maybe I'm closer to the boardie tag.

But I like the word fan, even though it seems that some people still attach "crazy" to that word. I like to go to the gigs for the sake of the music, AND I don't think it's such a great problem if I like any of the members for their looks (I am a girl and I have eyes, obviously *LOL*). But I'm not trying to break into anyone's room, or throw myself at them or something like that (which I do think it's pretty scary ).

What do I consider myself then: boardie, groupie or fan? I think fan is the correct word for what I do.

The day groupie stops having its sexual connotations, I'll probably define myself like that.

amyzza:

And then, what happens if you go to loads of gigs, but you're not attempting anything near the "groupies stuff"

Mmm to me that's still a groupie. Going to multiple gigs all around the country/world. Although there are groupies that do want to have sex with them, it seems to be not as big of an thing as it used to be. At least, from what I see.
And people attach "crazy" to "fan" because there are some crazy fucking fans. Mostly groupies but also people who stalk their house, follow them around when they are being normal people, hacking their email, stealing their phone, getting their AIM screen name & spamming them with messages of ~luv~, finding out what car they drive...oh geesh that is just what I can think of off the top of my head I have seen/heard about from just a few bands I like. That's a crazy fan. Not just a fan, don't know about groupie, and don't know about boardie.

Honestly, for me going to NJ and NY was just too much. I enjoyed hanging out with people and meeting people but that made gig 3 and 4 in the same tour and I was just done. And I'm still done. Only thing I've listened to from Keane was SLC a few times since then. You couldn't even get me to see Cold War Kids 4 times in one tour. Or even Semisonic after getting together again after 8+ years.
But that wasn't my point...my point is I don't understand how people can go to a million shows and not get bored or annoyed - of ANY band. Concerts are fun and all, but it is the same thing over and over and fake sincerity. Idk if it's because it's an escape from a horrid life, a mental disorder, or just really bored rich kids...or a combo of each. What's worse is when people honeslty believe that the band memers/musicians remember them or care about them (other than being a fan and buying their crap to make them $$) by going to a million shows. And I always find it funny when they get shot down.
Anyway. It's these kind of things that make me think of groupies.
While boardies are just people on the messageboard.

But if you want to factor in the modern world of instant information...I'd still say that's either fandom or crazy fandom, depending on what information you are getting. Which again, can either make you a groupie or boardie, but not always.

Well, even though "groupie" still sort of has negative connotations, I think it's still the best term for people who follow bands around.  Though I guess you could call them followers...?

b0red:

But that wasn't my point...my point is I don't understand how people can go to a million shows and not get bored or annoyed - of ANY band.

I have to say I kind of agree with you on that one.  I'm not knocking the people that do, because if I had the time and money, I'd probably try and go to more than one Keane gig per touring cycle. But for me personally, after the second or third show I think it'd start to get old.  Maybe I'm just an old fogie but it's tiring going to gigs; I don't live super far from DC but it was like 2 in the morning when I got back from the show in May, plus waiting in line for ages and ages gets tiring, and if you're out of town, there's the exhaustion of traveling on top of all that.  Not only that but it's usually the same songs, so I think the shows would lose their charm after a while.  Plus, for me, not seeing Keane multiple times in a row makes it that much more special and exciting when I do get to see them again.

That being said though, I don't think the people that go multiple gigs are mental cases (not usually anyway! ). As I posted earlier, I think some of it is to do with the love of the music and/or the buzz of going to a live show that keeps people coming back for more, plus if you're going to a city you've never been to before, there's the excitement of being somewhere new.

cowpie21:

I've wondered that myself...why do people react the way they do to Keane, or any other band for that matter? Or like with the Beatles, why did they ellicit mass hysteria? I was a total fan girl with the Beatles when I was younger....I had the posters on my wall, all the albums, books, wanted to know all about them, had a small crush on Paul McCartney , etc.  The music is a huge factor for me, and now that I'm older I appreciate their songwriting and their musicianship a lot more, but why did I get into the Beatles specifically and so hard-core? Was it that my mom was a fan? Who knows. I often wonder if the media plays a part; though with the Beatles I got into them a good 15-20 years after they broke up so they weren't really in the public eye anymore, but back in their hey-day there was a lot of media hype around them.  And now with the internet, information and pictures etc are so accessible that I think maybe it fosters that kind of adoration.  Something that I think would make a good psych experiment is how exposure of an artist/band plays a role in someone's being fan of them.  With Keane for example, there are pockets of fans that like Tim the best or Richard or Jesse.  But, it seems like there's a larger pocket of Tom fans, and I wonder if it's due to exposure.  As the lead singer, Tom seems to get the brunt of the fame and I think by default is kind of "the face of the band" (even though obviously the band is made up of more than just Tom); when I see press pictures from live gigs, most of the pictures seem to be of him, or seeing video footage of gigs like the Live DVD; the camera mainly focuses on Tom because he's the one singing the songs and running around the stage being the frontman. So I just wonder if the fact that Tom seems to be more in the public eye in that sense leads to the way people feel about him. 

I guess though a lot of why people respond they way they do to bands goes back to personal taste, as in people respond to different types of music. But I have to agree that going full tilt for a band, through finding out all you can, merch, forums, etc, is maybe a way of trying to be a part of the music (or maybe even the band on some level). As far as following a band around, I think that's true too, but I also think it also has to do with the "high" of going to a live show; all the excitement of being there with your favorite band playing live right in front of you.  And I think for Keane, their music is so personal and honest that I think it makes people gravitate to them that much more.

 

 

yeah, cowpie21.  i love tom, i really do but he gets way too much attention from the fans and media than tim or richard. they all have their lovely qualities that i vibe off of. i know tom is the front man and voice but they are buddies and a music gang. let's share the spotlight! but then again, tim seems so shy and this may add to his attraction for many.

as for 'late or delayed mania' i also went through my 'doors' phase and was convinced i was jim morrison in a girl's body in the nineties when that doors movie with val kilmer came out!  lol. they were such very bad boys and i could never get enought of them. it always made me regret not being a child of the 60's - such great music with the beatles, hendrix, motown, doors, social activism, woodstock (the anniversary this year!) etc.. i feel you on the media exposure thing too. i'm a bit hyper aware of how media interprets pop culture and so-called 'taste' and 'style' so what sort of got me with keane were that they possibly represented the underdog of brit pop. certain music journalists seemed to diss them all the time before so it fueled fans sticking up for them and the love for the boys even more.  i mean, i would have never found out about all this if it hadn't been for archived stories on the internet and in forum boards like this that gave me a delayed (by years!) yet similar reaction in kind!
 

btw, thanks all for your detailed thoughts. i am slowly catching up!!! in music, lord b

b0red:

...my point is I don't understand how people can go to a million shows and not get bored or annoyed - of ANY band. Concerts are fun and all, but it is the same thing over and over and fake sincerity. Idk if it's because it's an escape from a horrid life, a mental disorder, or just really bored rich kids...or a combo of each. What's worse is when people honeslty believe that the band memers/musicians remember them or care about them (other than being a fan and buying their crap to make them $$) by going to a million shows. And I always find it funny when they get shot down.
Anyway. It's these kind of things that make me think of groupies.
While boardies are just people on the messageboard.

But if you want to factor in the modern world of instant information...I'd still say that's either fandom or crazy fandom, depending on what information you are getting. Which again, can either make you a groupie or boardie, but not always.

 

hey b0red, i do have the fear of getting 'bored' very easily so i would force myself to keep some sort of critical distance from a fave artist or band.  i think i am just playing catch up since i am late in the keane fandom game.  you also mentioned something interesting just in terms of how we feel or imagine ourselves relating to artists either in real time or online. i remember thinking about how sometimes some of us, including myself, are really intent on believing that it's just us and the band against the world and all enemies or something like that. ahah. i discovered just from going to my first keane concert and processing a few days after that it's a quality artists seem to work at in terms of capturing the audience's attention with such precision.  so much so that many audience members feel this incredible sense of intimacy and closeness to said artist or band during the performance.  i think that's something these cats hone in on when performing live shows and providing real time interactions with fans too. i mean, its not just the live performances either. it's the aftermath with the meet and greet or randomly coming across the boys as they roam about discovering new cities for themselves.  however, one sincere ounce of attention from keane can go a very very long way.  it's making me think that the repeated nature of these interactions from going to multiple shows might have me really feeling as if they as a part of my life. it all could mean different things to different people but overall i think that's the power of music, yes?   :)

just knowing that fans expect keane to come out and take time after each and every concert might fuel our frenzied expectations as well. having the photographic evidence of these interactions via online pictures for the world to see is another way to get everyone collectively excited too! (despite the fact that i hate being in photos i love to look at them! lol)  but i always wonder though if the band or any other artist for that matter might feel the need or obligated to make fans feel wanted and loved. maybe it's part of the job too and it appears that keane seems to do this pretty well from what i felt and gathered. but then again it could also be that they might simply be very warm and kind in the ways that they interact with fans/groupies/enthusiasts/boardies/everyday people/animals no matter what. i don't know, i hope i don't sound too analytic about it all. i'm just curious about fandom and stuff like this and want to learn more from folks...

lord_byron:

i remember thinking about how sometimes some of us, including myself, are really intent on believing that it's just us and the band against the world and all enemies or something like that.

That's different than believing they know you/remember you/care about you as a person though. I think that can be said for any music that speaks to you. Certain bands/musicians mean a great deal to me and are a big part of my life and I DO consider them to be a part of my life. But on a personal level, I know they don't give a shit about me, other than the fact I spend money on them. but I'm just part of the paycheck, not a pal.
See what I was trying to say?
You're analyzing from points I agree with, but I'm talking about things of that sort. I've seen it happen, with Keane and other musicians. It just becomes uncomfortable when you're watching on x) and a little pathetic, honestly xD

L_B and B0red - I think you are saying two sides of pretty much the same thing: there's a reason certain artists and songs (and other works of art for that matter) touch us.  What we do with those feelings can be the difference between appreciation and potential obsession, in my opinion.

I know that for me I got into certain bands at very appropriate times in my life.  I started getting heavily into Depeche Mode (who are still my favorite, btw) when I was in my mid-teens; their songs about love - and lust! - totally fed my hormonal teenage self.  It wasn't until I was older that I really started to appreciate them for more than just risque and sexy lyrics.  *blush*

With Keane, I think one of the reasons I've really gotten into them is that their music also speaks to particular times in my life.  It helps I think that the band members are my peers in terms of age (early-mid 30s) and upbringing to a certain extent (I'm US private school educated, the daughter of professionals, and upper middle class); it helps that they are in similar points in their life as I am in mine and have similar outlook on sociopolitical issues as I do.  It certainly means I relate more to Tom, Tim, and Richard than say the Jonas Brothers or even Lily Allen if I'm honest.  (And I like Lily's music!)

That said, I don't mistake that kinship if you will for actual bonding/friendship: it's obviously totally one-sided, even if I were an Uber-Fan crisscrossing the globe to follow them.  It's more of a reminder that each one of us isn't as alone in this world as we think. As much as I felt comforted at 15 that I wasn't the only one feeling certain things because hey, Martin or Dave was singing about them!  I feel similarly at *cough34cough* when I hear "Is It Any Wonder?" or "Nothing in My Way" or "Perfect Symmetry." 

And because I'm frankly useless at any sort of creative expression myself, it's as if I express myself vicariously when I really feel touched by a song.  (And then sing it really loudly in the car.  Or dance around my living room like a fool. *laugh*)  I feel the same way about certain books and works of art. 

Ok, enough late night rambling.  Have a lovely evening all.

Di

thanks for joining us, di.  i am feeling you on this. yeah, i think we are agreeing but just have different approaches. b0red, correct me if i am wrong but you seem to take a more realistic and pragmatic approach to fandom while i meant to say before that it's only reasonable to really believe celebs are a part of us and really do know us. maybe i am just being overly compassionate to the point of naivety but i really understand the need to feel that connection with a real person behind the music we love so much. 

that's interested about depeche mode.  i for one, have a hard time fantasizing about keane in a sexually explicit or hot and bothered way as i would say, gael garcia bernal or those dudes from kasabian.  at the very least, it's fun to imagine, fantasize or 'die' and 'get attacked' over cutie pie tom/tim/rich/jesse photos (lol).  i think these qualify as 'healthy' and innocent obsessions. right? (!) 

i don't know...i'm just a dreamer, i guess. then again, maybe i am lord_byron after all.  ;)

justanotherdawn:

Yes, I think the terms have probably changed over the years. When my 37-year-old brother calls me a groupie, he's definitely trying to wind me up with stalkery connotations. Anyone can see I spend way too much time here to do any serious following.

 

@ justanotherdawn, naively, i didn't know that groupie still had such a sexual connotation for some. all along i was calling myself that AND a stalker, possessed with extra obsession/addiction/bugs/passion of christ type of stuff for keane. all jokingly, of course because all i do is stare at my computer myself all day. haha your brother would have a field day on all of us. 

 I listen to Keane since April 2004 and only got to see the band live for the first time in November 2008. During all this time, I have to admit that I was damn jealous of all the people who had already seen Keane and more especially of those who see the band very often. Now, however, less than a year after my first gig, I saw Keane live 6 times and I have to say I feel sorry for those who go to their gigs very often, like following them on a whole tour. Because, I mean, you somehow lost magic. During the Rock en Seine gig my back ached and I surprised myself by thinking « I hope this gig will be over soon, the pain is too hard. » My back also ached during my first gig and all I was thinking was « I bloody don’t care about my damn back » My point is, you somehow lost the magic if you see them too often on a tour. To be honest, I went to Winterthur, in Switzerland, two days after Rock en Seine, for Keane, yeah, of course, because, I mean, they are my favourite band and will always remain so, of course, and it is always a great thing to get to see them, but my first motivation for the Musikfestwochen was that it would allow me to see Léandra again and if she had not asked me to come I wouldn’t have. Something surprised me, after the London gigs I went to in February, fans exited the venue laughing out loud while I felt totally down, because these gigs were so great and already over. My point is, the day I will exit a Keane gig without thinking « Damn it is already over » I will stop going to see them. Bercause to me, you don’t go to a Keane gig like you go to the cinema. There is some thing so much more precious. But maybe that just makes me like some kind of very crazy stalker LOL (even if I don’t consider myself as a stalker, I mean, I did not even know Tim had a daughter until last February and I could not be able to remember their birthday dates even if my very life depended on that)

As for the distinctions boardies/fans/goupies etc, I don’t really know.
To me, « boardies » understands a sense of community, a link between us, it is not just posting messages here, and as much as people love to think « Keane, connecting people » I’m not very sure about that. Of course, I met great great people thanks to Keane, and I couldn’t imagine live without talking to them on the Internet or with the phone, but how many people still don’t give a sh*t about me? I don’t post as often as I used to here, because of school, yes, but also because I really don’t feel that welcomed here. I mean, I may have posted six times this last two months and it was my pictures and reviews from Rock en Seine because I felt like nobody ever read what I was saying, especially in the French section, which is quite paradoxical as we are far less numerous there than in the English parts of the board. But I am quite mature, so I don’t take it bad that people don’t answer my posts, I just post less but continue to read the board because I quite enjoy some funny people always making me smile when I read their posts (Mel-b0red, you are a goddess in this category ahah) and when I find a very interesting subject in which I have something to say, I post, just like now. But what is really making me feel ill-at-ease is the atmosphere between fans in gigs. I mean, in London, we were running for the first row, of course, we were not even in the room still, and this girl fall. I wanted to stop, of course, to see if she was alright, but nobody stopped, and people nearly ran on her! I had to push myself against the wall not to hurt her and not to be hurt! And so I ended second row, and when I was there, I looked at all the people at the first, and I thought « Damn, they could have killed her just to be there! » And honestly, where is the difference between being at first or at second row? You can feel angry if you waited ten hours outside and end at the back of the room, but SECOND ROW? Seriously, I don’t see where is the bad thing in it. And there is also a lot of hypocrisy between all of us. I mean, all these fans posting « Wow Anna, you are so very dedicated, congrats » when Anna1976 got to post officially in Richard’s blog when we perfectly know that most of them (who are often the ones who ask band members to marry them in the comments on keanemusic.com) just thought « Ow sh*t I’m so damn jealous of that woman, grrr, I hate her, she got to be known by my Riiiiiiiichyyyyyyyy!! » (and Anna, if you read this, I don’t mean to be rude to you, I quite enjoy your pics as they are always beautiful and as I already said before, I don’t feel like following them all around the world as you do. And anyway I am not wealthy enough, being the poor student that I am LOL)

Then, for the groupie thing, I once looked into a dictionnary, and the definition I got was « Fan of a band, often a girl fan for a male band, following said band on every date of their tours » There was no allusion to sex or lust, but after all it was a French dictionnary so maybe the word is slightly different in English. But the word is so often used that I think it somehow lost of its first meaning. Here in France and after the Tokio Hotel invasion (which is something I will never understand btw LOL), groupie became a word for all these teenage girls, often between 12 and 14, who loved Biiiiiiiiiiiiiill and Tooooooooooom so much they threw thongs for them on stages and cut their skins with rasors just to look as dark as their idols. And I mean, they are only 12 years-old. What an unhealthy way of being a fan!! My friends told me I was scary to go to London for Keane, but to me it is totally different, you don’t necessarly suffer from mental disorder when you follow a band all around a country or the world (even if I do consider people who do that as people with no lives if I want to be honest. And no offence please, I don‘t mean being rude. It always amaze me that some people have so much time that they can follow a band on so many dates and in so many countries. You got to tell me what is your job, I want the same, a lot of money AND a lot of holidays, me waaaaaaaaaaaaaants LOL)
You sometimes can hear « No, I’m not a groupie, I’m a fan », as if people were defending themselves for being a bit crazy, about a band or an actor or a singer, etc. but I don’t really know if that is really different. After all, « fan » comes from the word « fanatic », and as the French philosoph VOLTAIRE wrote it in his article called « Fanatisme » (in French, drop the final E to get the English lol) which is about religious fanatism, a fanatic IS someone dangerous. And with a mental disorder. I prefer to say that I am an admirator ahah And you know what? I only have two Keane posters, one of them being the replica of UTIS booklet, so no sign of the band except from its name, it is more a piece of art of Sanna Annuka in fact, and the other, where there indeed are TTRJ, is under my bed (no, I don’t mean in the dust on my floor, my bed is a high bed, so this poster is where I put my jackets LOL)

But I truly think, and I’m not saying any name, their posts speak for them, that I feel both scared and sorry by some Keane fans. The ones posting TOM I LOVE YOU MARRY ME, and thing like that, both on km.com and on the board, and EVEN FACEBOOK!! And that is why I don’t read anymore the comments on km.com and avoid the Keane Band section of the forum now. Because I am slightly ill-at-ease to read such words. Keane is part of my life, there is no doubt about it. Tom, Tim, Richard and Jesse AREN’T. That is as simple as that. I know I make a difference very clearly in my head as I refer to Keane using singular, it is the band, and to the members using plurial, that is somehow just a detail but I think is says it all: I love Keane’s music, but I don’t love the band members. Of course, they do really seem nice and I enjoyed meeting Tim, Richard and Jesse. But you can’t say you love somebody as you love a friend, or a brother, or a girlfriend or even a dog (lool) when the only image you have of them is pictures on the Internet and small talks after a gig where there are usually so many fans that they don’t spend so much time with every single person who is present there. I know they don’t give a sh*t about me and it does’nt make me feel sad or desperate. Because I don’t want them to be my friends anyway. And even if they asked me to become their friends (I know it is very not likely to happen, but you see what I mean), I would say no. It would feel far too weird and I would act way too awkward if I ended hanging out with the members of the band I love so much, going to the cinema with them, going into their houses and stuff like that. I love Keane, not TTRnJ. Even if they do seem nice. I don’t know if you get it.
I also like a lot a Belgian band called Hollywood P0rn Stars (go and listen, they have their own PS… Perfect Storm ahah and their songs are in English, if it reassures you lol) and I first saw them live in August 2008, in a small festival, we were only about 30 people in front of the stage and I obviously was the only fan. I met them at the end of the gig and we had a really nice moment, it helped a lot that we speak the same language. And I saw them live again in May 2009 in a very small venue and I met them again (well it wasn‘t very difficult as they sold their merchandising themselves LOL) and Eric who is the bassist told me « Hey we already saw you somewhere! » and I told « Yeah, at the Swimming Poule Festival » and so he said « Yeah indeed. » And so I was really pleased that he remembered me, but I KNOW it will NEVER happen with Keane, I mean, they tour far too much and have way too many fans all around the world for them to remember every conversation they have with fans.
I can understand that some people feel somehow close to Keane because the power of Tim’s writting is to put words on feelings we all have but that we can’t express directly, and these feelings are very personnal indeed. I feel this way too. I love Keane coz their music makes me feel not so all alone sometimes. But there is a huuuuge gap between this and truly belonging to their lives. And if Keane is part of the lives of us all here (because we wouldn‘t be posting here if they were not), it is with their music, not with themselves. Even if the band members are trying to stay in touch with the public thanks to the website.

And anyway we all know they are far from being perfect. I don’t want to bring back hard memories, but Tom was a junkie. And Keane as a band is far from being perfect too, I mean, they went to Star Academy and wrote You don’t see me ahah LOL Anyway, I think that this is enough to show that Keane members definitely are not perfect, and those who are in love with them should start a psychoanalysis. Get a life you all whose highest ambition in life is to kill band members’ girlfriends and wives to take their places ahah

PS (no, you Keaners, not PS as in Perfect Symmetry, PS as in Post Scriptum LOL): I hope what I wrote makes sense for you, it seems that my English is getting worse and worse everyday and that you went through it all without feeling like drowning in my words - I really speak way too much LOL And if I hurted someone, I’m sorry, but I was trying to be very sincere in my words and this language not being my mother language and as I‘m only 18, I don‘t know English enough well to be nicer…

Thanks for reading ahah

I agree with most of what you are saying, Marinaaa.

I am also uncomfortable with some of the level of um, intensity (?) that some seem to feel for the individual members of the band.   I too avoid the TTR&J Worship Threads, though I think the Caption thread is hilarious. 

Back to the original topic, I think that the internet has fed a lot of the celebrity adoration; where else can you go to talk with hundreds of other people about your favorite band or actor?  And see tons of pictures of them, download videos, listen to interviews, etc. - all at your fingertips.  Before the Web, fans would be content with their t-shirt, some pictures they took after a show, and a magazine interview of a particular band.  Now we can go on various sites and in a manner of minutes, access enough information to give us a false sense of actually knowing specific individuals. 

Remember when Tim was asked if he ever Googled himself, he later he did, and then reported on what he found?  I can only imagine the results: true, false, in-between.  And people read that stuff every day and believe it.  It's like you have no control over having your privacy invaded thanks to information being available online, both private and publicly-accessible information.

For me, the term 'boardie' refers more to the fact that I post on a messageboard with others who share a common interest.  I'm also a 'boardie' on several other messageboards, with subjects ranging from Baby Names / Onomastics to Debates about Current Events to kind of a Women's Coffeklatsch chat board.  I also have had a blog for the last 9 years and belong to a private messageboard of close friends.    For me part of the 'boardie' experience is meeting people with whom you at first only have one thing in common - the board to which you belong and its subject - but then you find out you have more in common.  But I've found that even that can give a false sense of friendship; at one point I had over 200 'friends' on LiveJournal, most of whom I had never met before.  My Facebook friends list is over 200, but most of those people are real-life and/or longterm friends.

I guess my point is, we all need to step back and figure out what being a fan and being part of a community means to us and what we wish to get out of those interactions and participation.  I think for most of us here, it's to chat about a band we like, kill some time, and maybe become friends (irl or virtually) with others. 

Di

I think Marina's wallotext pretty much sums everything up.

And sometimes being blunt is the best way to put things I approve of you.



Some of the stuff I see here (and on other band sites and even in real life at/after a gig) completely scares the crap out of me.
I mean..obviously some of it is joking and kidding around, but that which isn't...I have to ask these people: What's lacking in your life you need to act this way?

Emmybear:

EDIT:  Okay, I agree with some of the points you've made.  Regarding the definition of a fan, is it fair to say that every fan has a mental disorder though?  Personally, I think not... as I think that there are still many levels of fandom, and one can be a fan and still be "sane".  It's just dependent on how far that person wants to take it.

 

If you see the word "fan" as somebody enjoying music and all, so, yes, I am a fan and totally agree that there are differeent levels of fandom. What I meant is that the etymology of the word is that it comes from "fanatic". And this word has a connotation of a mental disorder, obviously. You don't consider people bombing cities just for their gods as sane, do you? And so, with the etymology, I don't know if it is better being a fan or being a groupie lol

Emmybear:

I do have a problem when people completely disregard others - like your story of the girl being run over at a gig.  A while back there was another boardie I knew that had a similar problem and almost got trampled by a gazillion people that didn't even care!!  I think that's what upsets me the most- when people treat others badly (at gigs or elsewhere) or even the band, either to get what they want or even if they don't get what they want.  It's quite sickening.  Even some of the horror stories of jealousy at gigs- where people jump down others throats fighting for barrier, line status or groping a band member, or even some of the stuff that goes on online... *sigh*  I mean, it's painful just writing about it! 

I saw two girls fight for one of Richard's drummsticks in Winterthur. No, sorry. They were two women actually. I mean, it is just a ****ng piece of wood.

^^Yeah, the lengths some people will go to to get what they want is scary. Goodness....

I agree with some of your post too, _Marinaaa, but for me, the term "fanatic" doesn't necessarily have negative connotations.  In the definition it lists "zealot, bigot" and some other negative words associated with it, but in today's society it doesn't seem like the word is always used in a negative way.  If you're a hardcore fan of something, you're a fanatic; that doesn't necessarily mean you're a nutcase though. Like I consider myself a Beatles fanatic but I'm not pyscho. Though yes, there are people who do take "fanatic" to the scary level.

I will admit, if the comments section on km.com suddenly disappeared, I wouldn't cry over it.  That being said though, I think it's normal for people to say they "love" a celebrity.  I say I love Paul McCartney - now I don't love him like I love my husband or my family, but I admire his talent and really enjoy his music.  I'm sure a lot of us say we love Keane; again with the Beatles as an example, I say I love the Beatles. I think for a lot of people that's just saying you like the band's music, not necessarily saying you love a band's members as love interests or friends, or whatever, though there might be some people that feel that way. And I think it's natural for people to want to appreciate a celebrity's looks; do some people take it too far or get a little over enthusiastic? Sure - to me that constitutes fangirl-ism. But I'm sure all of us have our celebrity crushes or have seen someone on the TV or in a magazine and have remarked that that person is hot; we even have hot guys/girls threads on this very board. I dunno...I guess it's a fine line and it's hard/not really fair to judge how "sane" a fan is, particularly online, because there may be some people who romantically love a celebrity and are desperate to be with them and/or stalk in the scary sense of the word (which is sketchy), but then there are others who are just fans in a "regular" sense.

[/ramble]

 

Well, I agree with what you say but the term fanatic is the probably the most accepted one to express a special interest or admiration for something.

And also I think the Internet has “created” a new type of fan.
A combination of fan+boardie+groupie
Fan: a person with an excessive interest and enthusiasm for something, esp. an activity.
Boardie: People who are a part of a community on the internet.
Groupie: fan of a band who travels around to see them (without all the negative connotations)
Getting information so fast and traveling is easier today than it’s ever been thanks to the internet.

imo, one of the best things for fans of anything, especially music, are the forums and communities. The possibility to communicate with others who have the same interests, admire the same artists, share information, feel part of a group, etc; when organized well (like this one) is great.
But because it’s a community, it can be as tight or as laid back as people want it to be.
If you want it to be all about music, you can have it about that; if you want it to be about “ohmigoddz marry me tom jonazzz” then it can be that way, and if you just want to mix it all together, it’s fine, too.
In the end it’s all for fun, even fangirlsm is funny when not taken seriously.
But of course, some people forget that and it becomes chaos!! Humans in a community after all...lol
Actually this one is the most respectful and nicest forums I’ve ever seen, and that’s why I dared to start writing when this new forum was open.

And well, it's easy to find “normal” fans and scary fans everywhere, not just online. There’s a thin line between normal and “scary”. You can love something (I can’t find another word for “more than really really liking”) and still not want to possess it or become a part of it...like some football fans do haha...or "i love you drummer boy-marry me-i'm worried about you-i've never met you!"

Anyway for many years, we survived without Internet. We had music magazines, we had the radio, Tv and some trustworthy newspapers. So, if suddenly the forum was shut down, that wouldn’t change my love for music. I loved Keane long before I joined the forum and sure, now I watch the videos all of you take at concerts, I laugh my head off reading the caption and dream thread and even throw the OMG!! at pictures, but if it all went away I would go back to listening my CD’s only. No big deal. And I guess it shouldn't be for any true fan. Music is what matters after all right? Right?

i realized that i am a so-called 'wall of text' poster too!!! i need a life but first, let me catch up with the convo... lol.

hi marinaaa! thanks so much for your detailed thoughts.  i do see what you are saying to a certain extent but i really can't say much about any members here since i don't know anyone well enough to pass any kind of judgement even if i wanted to. but i only attended my first keane concerts this month and it still new to me as i usually roll to chilled out jazz concerts or electronica djs in a club setting.  so the barrier thing was out of this world for me! lol   i just think there are different levels of fandom and how people experience music. it's all subjective and what 'reality' might be for one person could be false consciousness, disillusionment, or insanity to another. i'm not saying that having this sense of reality is warped or wrong. it's just another way to live and make sense of a social world where one experiences music in a very personal way through symbolic encounters with band members and thier music. i don't think these feelings should be discredited or taken away from anyone if they cherish it so. it's their experience and i acknowledge it for what it is even through i may question it and myself in order to understand it a bit more.  

then for some, experiencing music is just that - the music and the band as a whole and that's all good too.  i admit that it's more for me and i definitely consider the individual band members themselves and how thier personality or traits contribute to the entire creative music process and output. i don't LOVE LOVE tom, rich, or tim in a literal sense. it's just that in addition to their musical repertoire and performances, i really admire them for various reasons such as how tom did recover from drugs and drink. this resonates with a lot of people who may have had this kind of addiction some time in their lives. or with richard and politics which i think is so dope and which takes a lot of bravery esp with fan support since we are so diverse in our political views. and then there's tim being the quiet yet diabolical music genius with the awesome 'piano dance' moves and quirky sense of humor. i do measure my admiration with critique as you do too. i did not like PS when I first heard it!  and i always thoguh that tom robs the spotlight from tim and rich. but then again, tim could be making tom work like a dog with all the singing and interviews too while rich is taking time off to save the world and humans. ahaha no really, i just mean that i can't divorce the individual member's qualities from the music. it's just how i see myself and music as an experience. some fans take thier experiences to be very personal and feel a real connection to individual members.  i understand that you might have a different relation to music but that just adds to the diversity of how music is felt and interpreted by all these fans from around the world.

oh yeah, i think that's a great point you brought up in reference voltaire and the etymology of the word 'fan.'  it makes me think how this other french dude by the name of derrida would add to the discussion on this too and say that language and words change and have these traces all over space and time given the use of various words in different contexts. given that, 'fan' can still be taken to mean fanatic or fanatism in a dangerous way but i think when people use it to describe their incredible love of music, it's more in the positive sense. the more powerful connotation in the word just means the more powerful the enthusiasm of the fan.  again, i think it's only reasonable given the effect music might have on a person. yes, it can be pretty hard-core at times and maybe there is a need to check oneself. but i am thinking that just as long as no one gets hurt, turns violently jealous or goes delirious i think its only human to feel that way about one's relationship to music and the people associated with it.  in other words,  i'm not trying to justify it, only to understand it a little more. i hope i am making sense... btw, your english is the bomb, girl! no worries at all!

but back to technology - and cowpie, you might be able to answer this one - don't you think km.com and how the site is set up enables all of this overly excitable fandom to happen with the format in the comments section?  i really do get a kick out of how some posters use very creative words to express thier 'intense enthusiasm.'  i admit that i sometimes use the comments section just like it's a forum board itself when do try to have 'light discussions' with some interesting people over there.  but i am still new so i can't really be held accountable because of my ignorance on this, eh?  lol. but on the real, i am thinking that commenters see the comment section as a more direct connection with the band versus communicating with other random fans in the forum area.  as for the band menbers section of the forum, it's funny because i wanted to post rich's amnesty campaign thing in the band member section but wasn't sure if it would fit in given the focus on fans salivating over harmless TTRJ pictures. ahahah

thanks again for the thoughts! 

I've been following this thread since it started, and I have to say it's fascinating how a discussion/query about semantics can turn into such an intense debate about how we all conduct ourselves in relation to the band and the music. Aside from commenting on behaviour that's actually causing harm to other people, I think we need to be aware of the power of words and how much they can hurt when we categorize fans according to our own subjective notions of their motives and shortcomings.